Game 4: The Choice

Patamon wrote:

Slifer wrote:

Nadi wrote:Ponyo sounds towny to me too , vote Cacturne

Do you TR them for the same exact reasons I do? or do you have anything else to add on your TR with them?

Also as a side note, I know some people are only now playing, but I feel like it’s getting a little too late for purely RVS lynches and that we should be trying to push more interaction/ discussion atm. One of the easiest ways for town to lose is a lack of communication, one of the only tools we have is our vote, and if we don’t use it wisely then it’ll be bad in the long run.

Seeing a post like this is the exact reason for why I'm completely and utterly confused at the response below.

Nattō Kozō wrote:Sorry, I'm not saying much since the device I would like to I can't use much.
Would like to add that we don't really need to ask for why are you doing this now, most is simply rvs.

We shouldn't be in a state where there's mostly rvs votes now.  There should be some understanding of how people are talking and based on that, proper responses should be dealt.  I don't like the excuse that we shouldn't ask people why they're doing things now cause like it's been stated, we're pretty far past the initial rvs stage.  I want to do a Lynch Nattō Kozō here cause I really don't like this response whatsoever.  They've also continued to not provide any sort of addition to the discussions throughout and seem to just be watching from the sidelines.  Whether this is something to be seen as scummy or just as a bad town move remains to be seen yet.

Would like to mention that the second part of this doesn't quite make sense, because you're being rather hypocritical. Several of your posts take a mention to rvs, and do you really have reason provided for your own vote besides that I've done RVS? In which case that goes against your whole argument of we shouldn't be focused on rvs and rvs votes.

Nattō Kozō wrote:Me not being the most active person is something that should be seen as NAI.
Pushing lurkers isn't the greatest idea, because we're unaware of what they'll flip. Pressuring them doesn't do much to provide info on the game either, because well, they're lurkers.

adding onto this, the Cacturne wagon is kinda meh. I get that its only to have vote in maj but that same reasoning there is also the reason that its bad. We don't necessarily need a vote, especially because it could be more harmful to town than beneficial.

Nattō Kozō wrote:Me not being the most active person is something that should be seen as NAI.
Pushing lurkers isn't the greatest idea, because we're unaware of what they'll flip. Pressuring them doesn't do much to provide info on the game either, because well, they're lurkers.

yes yes I've heard this before.

Bu we need a lynch to go through and cacturne isn't going to be helping hit maj.

I.. am going to play video games instead of trying to explain to natto why he's wrong.

Someone else please do it thanks

I posted just beforehand my thoughts on the maj

I probably won’t be able to post much today since I have a busier schedule than anticipated but some quick thoughts are as follow

Drago so far has been giving me clueless town vibes and i’ve been seeing a lot of SR thrown onto them, with little elaboration, if there’s any textual evidence to back up the SR i would love to see it.

As far Natto’s point, I don’t entirely disagree. A lynch is super important for the early game, but we shouldn’t waste a lynch on someone purely because they are inactive, that can sometimes lead to either us killing a town pr or throwing off early game momentum. and from what i’ve seen cacturne hasn’t given too much to be lynched over and if we are lynching someone who has been inactive, I think it should be someone who has said stuff to warrant it (because IMP cacturne hasn’t said anything that’s overtly scummy, unlike someone like stitch who found what the bare minimum was and did somehow less than that)

I’ll try to squeeze in another post in about an hour before I have to log off for the day

I think the lynch on Cacturne should be really telling if we can get the hammer today. I should be able to get a good scum read on the people who are left if I make it to day 2.

i dont see how drago's posts are any more substantial than mine are. drago voted on cacturne and openly admitted it was an rvs, which isnt the point of an rvs, and the other 80% of drago's posts are speculative about power roles that town or mafia should pick. i dont see how any of this wifom helps

cacturne wrote:

Nadi wrote:

cacturne wrote:STITCH ah he's so cute

Anyway, Drago is scum because he's a dragon and everyone else is some form of cute/amazing creature
Eitherway, I want to create some discussion and rn the best way to do that is to talk about setup

I dislike Mason as a choice tbh

Wdym dislike Mason as a choice? You trying to PR slip?

I thought I made it obvious enough that I'm talking about the setup here? I'm not sure how that acts as a "PR slip"
And even in the case that it was a PR slip, why do you think it's a good idea to state that in front of everyone?

i dont mind the cacturne wagon, but this makes me hesitate from lynching him out.

Nattō Kozō wrote:

Nattō Kozō wrote:Me not being the most active person is something that should be seen as NAI.
Pushing lurkers isn't the greatest idea, because we're unaware of what they'll flip. Pressuring them doesn't do much to provide info on the game either, because well, they're lurkers.

adding onto this, the Cacturne wagon is kinda meh. I get that its only to have vote in maj but that same reasoning there is also the reason that its bad. We don't necessarily need a vote, especially because it could be more harmful to town than beneficial.

im gonna have to disagree here. i honestly think the cacturne wagon is valid even though it's only based off of the fact that cacturne is a lurker. it's extremely detrimental for town to have a lurker throughout the entire game. if there is anytime to policy cacturne, then it's now because there is low risk in voting off cacturne now vs later.

the only reason i'm not actively pursuing the cacturne lynch is because i want to make it clear that i have fos on drago

Drago wrote:I think the lynch on Cacturne should be really telling if we can get the hammer today. I should be able to get a good scum read on the people who are left if I make it to day 2.

assume cacturne flips vt. what's stopping you from doing that analysis now?

Nattō Kozō wrote:

Patamon wrote:

Slifer wrote:

Nadi wrote:Ponyo sounds towny to me too , vote Cacturne

Do you TR them for the same exact reasons I do? or do you have anything else to add on your TR with them?

Also as a side note, I know some people are only now playing, but I feel like it’s getting a little too late for purely RVS lynches and that we should be trying to push more interaction/ discussion atm. One of the easiest ways for town to lose is a lack of communication, one of the only tools we have is our vote, and if we don’t use it wisely then it’ll be bad in the long run.

Seeing a post like this is the exact reason for why I'm completely and utterly confused at the response below.

Nattō Kozō wrote:Sorry, I'm not saying much since the device I would like to I can't use much.
Would like to add that we don't really need to ask for why are you doing this now, most is simply rvs.

We shouldn't be in a state where there's mostly rvs votes now.  There should be some understanding of how people are talking and based on that, proper responses should be dealt.  I don't like the excuse that we shouldn't ask people why they're doing things now cause like it's been stated, we're pretty far past the initial rvs stage.  I want to do a Lynch Nattō Kozō here cause I really don't like this response whatsoever.  They've also continued to not provide any sort of addition to the discussions throughout and seem to just be watching from the sidelines.  Whether this is something to be seen as scummy or just as a bad town move remains to be seen yet.

Would like to mention that the second part of this doesn't quite make sense, because you're being rather hypocritical. Several of your posts take a mention to rvs, and  do you really have reason provided for your own vote besides that I've done RVS? In which case that goes against your whole argument of we shouldn't be focused on rvs and rvs votes.

Do you not understand that I'm not voting you based on your rvs??? I'm voting you due to your clear lack of substantial participation given the many discussions that have occurred. There's plenty of things to talk about at this point in time and you've decided not only to not discuss anything that has been said, but also not try to start new discussions on your own thoughts this entire time. The only time you've said anything that could be even remotely useful to analyze was 3 pages in when you very incorrectly said that there's no need to explain anything since it's all rvs even though we're at a point where we should making a semblance of logical decisions, and your statement on the cacturne wagon is another discussion. You say "I don't like this lynch" yet you've done nothing to push a different lynch here and get something done. Kauren is completely right here saying we NEED a lynch to go through especially due to the fact that cacturne's lack of participation isn't going to give us any form of help in the future. On the off-chance that he's scum, we take the lynch. If he happens to be town, we still take the lynch cause he's being a very useless town rn. I'm still holding my lynch on you even though it will probably end in a cacturne lynch cause your whole mindset this game gives me sr vibes.

If cacturne is truly just afk it is a massive mistake to flip him here because our odds of flipping scum are roughly equal to those of flipping pr (remember that recent ps mafia game?)

Our odds of hitting mafia are significantly higher (and this downside mitigated) if we pick a player who is technically active but contributes almost nothing to the game. Drago fits this description but he's town so he's a bad choice. Stitch is prime material for this position; there is a self-survival focus to post#1033 to place himself just above the line of chopping and the general contentedness for a cacturne chop is very uninspired. I see no attempt from his posts to put the town into the driver's seat of this game.

Ponyo wrote:

Drago wrote:I think the lynch on Cacturne should be really telling if we can get the hammer today. I should be able to get a good scum read on the people who are left if I make it to day 2.

assume cacturne flips vt. what's stopping you from doing that analysis now?

I just won't make any solid reads until the beginning of day 2

Also just wondering @kliff if the two town power roles choose the same role do they become vt?

Ponyo wrote:If cacturne is truly just afk it is a massive mistake to flip him here because our odds of flipping scum are roughly equal to those of flipping pr (remember that recent ps mafia game?)

Our odds of hitting mafia are significantly higher (and this downside mitigated) if we pick a player who is technically active but contributes almost nothing to the game. Drago fits this description but he's town so he's a bad choice. Stitch is prime material for this position; there is a self-survival focus to post#1033 to place himself just above the line of chopping and the general contentedness for a cacturne chop is very uninspired. I see no attempt from his posts to put the town into the driver's seat of this game.

there is literally no point in speculating about cacturne's role. you could say the same thing with literally any other person we lynch: what if they're town pr cuz equal probability of town pr and mafia. also, your tr on drago because drago acts overtly scummy is concerning. dont assume mafia will make the perfect town plays.

Kauren wrote:@Kliff you wanna up the prodding a once per 24h or thrice per 48h kinda deal? Two pages in like 2 days isnt exactly inspiring as to the activity of the game.

I will post Timer updates throughout Discord

I will prod through pms If post is low

Drago wrote:Also just wondering @kliff if the two town power roles choose the same role do they become vt?

Nope

Stitch wrote:

Ponyo wrote:If cacturne is truly just afk it is a massive mistake to flip him here because our odds of flipping scum are roughly equal to those of flipping pr (remember that recent ps mafia game?)

Our odds of hitting mafia are significantly higher (and this downside mitigated) if we pick a player who is technically active but contributes almost nothing to the game. Drago fits this description but he's town so he's a bad choice. Stitch is prime material for this position; there is a self-survival focus to post#1033 to place himself just above the line of chopping and the general contentedness for a cacturne chop is very uninspired. I see no attempt from his posts to put the town into the driver's seat of this game.

there is literally no point in speculating about cacturne's role. you could say the same thing with literally any other person we lynch: what if they're town pr cuz equal probability of town pr and mafia. also, your tr on drago because drago acts overtly scummy is concerning. dont assume mafia will make the perfect town plays.

This is all I'm saying: the probability space for flipping a truly inactive player is 2 parts pr, 2 parts mafia, and 5 parts vt. The probability space for flipping a semi-active player is 2 parts mafia, 5 parts vt with the possibility of pr removed because we can get a claim first and switch wagons in that situation. In the absence of any strong reads, flipping a player who is not able to respond with a potential pr claim is worse than a player who can because it significantly lowers the odds of hitting mafia.

Drago's posts are extremely unconventional but I never found them scummy. A lot of the things he does rubs people the wrong way from a "policy" perspective (e.g. stating his posts as rvs / overfocus on setup) and he got a lot criticism for those sorts of things but the connection to mafia from there is not self-evident.

After thinking about this some more I am pretty sure that mafia will choose factional ninja because roleblock or doc can kinda work to their benefit compares to tracker and watcher. Looking at the possible ways this game could be played ninja would hide mafia tracks so watcher and tracker will only out the other town power role. Where doc and roleblock can cause more confusion.

Just some closing thoughts on each player before the day ends. I should have more solid reads tomorrow if I survive.

Cacturne: At this point, he should be hammer regardless if he is town or not because he is not helping town in this game regardless.

Slifer: Seems town to me.

Natto Kozo: Null.

Stitch: Seems town to me.

Patamon: Null/Slight TR.

Nadi: Could be Mafia tbh.

Ponyo: Could be Mafia as well.

Kauren: Seems town to me.

Ponyo wrote:If cacturne is truly just afk it is a massive mistake to flip him here because our odds of flipping scum are roughly equal to those of flipping pr (remember that recent ps mafia game?)

Our odds of hitting mafia are significantly higher (and this downside mitigated) if we pick a player who is technically active but contributes almost nothing to the game. Drago fits this description but he's town so he's a bad choice. Stitch is prime material for this position; there is a self-survival focus to post#1033 to place himself just above the line of chopping and the general contentedness for a cacturne chop is very uninspired. I see no attempt from his posts to put the town into the driver's seat of this game.

This would be true if the wagon was forming a day or two before DL.

Now that its 3 hours before DL, I dont really want to want to entertain the idea of a CFD

It’s probably too late to do anything now especially since risking a CFD might end up making things worse.

I had a busy day so I wasn’t really able to post much, but hopefully starting monday (after easter stuff ends) i’ll be able to actually give more input and reads

vote Cacturne

should be hammer

Vote Count 1.2: HAMMER!

This Concludes Day 1 

Majority Day 1



Hammer: 5

Kauren(0) -


Nadi(0) -


Ponyo(1) - 


Slifer (0) -


Stitch(0) -

Patamon(0) -


Drago(1) -


Nattō Kozō(1) -


Cacturne (5) -


No Lynch (0) -



Not Lynching- 1







Cacturne has Died



They Were:

Cacturne:

It is Now Night 1, Everyone with a possible action must send in their action otherwise Ill will take it as an idle. If You do not have an action, then you do not have to send anything. Night 1 will end in 24 hours; 4/3/2021 10:59 pm EST

I trust you all will continue to stay active and engage with the game.